Un-Nerf These Cards! Reverting Zabu, Loki, & Elsa Bloodstone | The Snap Chat Ep. 180

This week, Alex is joined by Marvel Snap creator and Marvel Yap co-host: Tuccrr! The duo kicks things off with a deep dive into the latest card releases. They discuss why the highly anticipated Punisher War Machine is currently falling flat in the meta, and debate whether the massive 4/12 stats on Akari are worth the awkward deck-building restrictions. Plus, they break down Muse, exploring how this new 3-Cost Ongoing card could revitalize mid-range Destroy decks featuring Weapon X and Dormammu.

Next, Alex and Tucker play game designer and build their ultimate wishlist of Cards We Want Un-Nerfed. They debate the chaotic implications of reverting Marvel Snap's most infamous cards back to their original, overpowered states, including 3/5 Loki, 2-Cost Zabu, Original Ms. Marvel, 2-Cost Elsa Bloodstone, and the 2/4 Agent Venom.

Finally, the hosts pitch some desperate reworks for the game's worst cards. Could Major Victory be redesigned as a High Evolutionary for the Guardians of the Galaxy? Does Mantis need to disable Objective cards? And why does Negasonic Teenage Warhead look exactly like Jack from Mass Effect?

Join Alex Coccia and special guest Tuccrr as they chat about this and more on this episode of The Snap Chat—and catch Cozy and Alex every week as they discuss all things Marvel Snap.

You’ve been listening to The Snap Chat. Keep the conversation going on x.com/ACozyGamer and x.com/AlexanderCoccia. Until next time, happy snapping!

Transcript

[00:00:00] Alex: Hey, everyone, and welcome to the next edition of The Snap Chat. This week we are joined by the second half of the Marvel Yap podcast. It is Tucker here, who came with a great recommendation from Not My Dance. Tucker, it's great to finally have you on the podcast. What people might not realize, and what Dance had referred to last week, is that this has been, like, two months in the making, 'cause you've had a busy little while here. 
 

How are you, my man? 
 

[00:00:23] Tuccrr: I am doing absolutely, uh, fantastic here, um, Alex. I- it is an absolute blessing to be here. Huge shout-out to you and to Dance for, for showing all the love to, to get me onto to the podcast. It's something I've wanted to be on for a long time as well, because I think you guys just do absolutely fantastic work here. 
 

Um, so, like, I just huge kudos to you and, like, I really do appreciate what you do with the community. Like, I think this is a really good just podcast in general, I think, that really can speak to a lot of people, and it really gives people, like, the connection that they really kind of need with, with Snap. 
 

So I just want to say kudos to you for that, and thanks for having me on. 
 

[00:00:56] Alex: Oh, I really appreciate that, but at the end of the day, like, you guys are the stars of the show, I find. Like, you guys come on, you have unique perspectives, amazing takes on cards God knows, way higher rank than I am half the time. 
 

So it's like one of those things where it's like, you know, you guys bring such a fresh, unique perspective that it's been a lot of fun having all these, like, diverse voices on and interesting perspectives. And it's great because, like, I like when we have an opportunity to first of all meet for the first time or, you know, kind of re-engage. 
 

Like, this is great for me too, because it gives me a chance to kind of like, uh, engage with the Marvel Snap community as a whole. And one of the major pillars of what I've always wanted to do as a content creator was I always wanted to be the tide that lifted all ships. And I remember that, uh, you know, there was a point in time in my Dota 2 career where I felt like everyone was punching down, no one was supporting each other, and I'm like, "If I'm ever in a position where I can help out, I'd like to." 
 

And here we are. And yeah, so it's great to have you on the podcast, my man, and, uh, you guys have a great podcast yourself with Dance called Marvel Yap. Why don't you talk to us a little bit about that? 
 

[00:01:57] Tuccrr: Yeah, so, so Marvel Yap is something that Dance and I have been doing for almost two years now. We're gonna have our 100th episode in August. 
 

Um, and we're super excited for that. And it's a podcast. Dance and I just go back and forth. We have good takes, we have bad takes, um, but we do a variety of different, like, tier lists, just card rankings. We go over the OTAs, give OTA predictions ourselves, go over data mines and stuff, but it's something that Dance and I do back and forth, and we call it Marvel Yap because we just talk just the entire time, sometimes over each other, sometimes we give each other space. 
 

It kind of just depends on what's happening then and there. But it's just a great way that Dance and I get to kind of just express, you know, our love for the game, 'cause we love Marvel Snap. You guys know Alex loves Marvel Snap. I hope you guys still love Marvel Snap. Even though it may not be where it once was, I still think the game at its, you know, core, like what it has done and being able to just, you know, express, you know, the characters. 
 

Most of their abilities can be kind of accurate. Not all of them, of course. Um, but I just really enjoy doing the podcast with Dance because we kind of have that same kind of passion for the game, and we're able to bounce a lot of, like, really great ideas off of each other. Um, so yeah, you guys definitely should be checking out the Yap as well. 
 

[00:03:01] Alex: And we'll have everything linked down below. You also have, like, your own YouTube content you make on a regular basis, so yeah, lots of great content out there. And we got a lot to talk about today, actually. We're gonna be talking about Punisher War Machine in review, getting your thoughts on it, of course. 
 

Akari in review. Muse, which is the new card coming out this week, tomorrow if you're listening to this on Monday. And then we're gonna talk about our, the nerfs we want reverted, some of the cards that came out in years prior that we would like to see brought back to their original stature, even if it's just to test them out a little bit, even if they're OP. 
 

We're gonna talk about a few there. I c- I cannot wait to bring up the ones that, like, I would really like to see come back. Then we have a few questions in the Snapchat mailbag. So you know what? Why don't we start, Tucker, with War Machine, okay? Punisher War Machine, I should say. Who... I was like, "When did this happen in the show?" 
 

Like, I, I feel- ... like this is, like, a pretty big deviation. Like, I'm a little behind. Mm-hmm. And, uh, like I don't, I don't... Like, I couldn't really find, like, the through line where this was gonna happen, and someone's like, "It's just kind of like a one-off comic situation," which is kinda cool. I like that. And uh, so yeah, Punisher War Machine, the 2/2 that reads, "When drawn, mark an empty, one of your empty locations, and the objective is you win that location, you gain plus one max energy for the rest of the game." 
 

So I had come in originally, both Regis and I ca- came in kind of high on our preview, and then with Dance, I kinda talked myself lower, right? Mm-hmm. Dance and I talked to each other a little lower, like, "Ah, you know what? Maybe this is not as great," 'cause we got the confirmation that your opponent does in fact know where the location is, which I mean, now everyone knows that, but at the time we didn't know that, right? 
 

So I was concerned that that was gonna have a pretty negative impact on the card, and I feel like I was right. Mm. This card felt more mid than expected. Now I don't wanna take away all your thunder, but the key thing that kind of, like, really stuck with Punisher War Machine for me was that, like- Because he has such an emphasis on that early game, to win that location you have to have cards like Martyr in there, and like you have to have those high presence early game cards. 
 

You get the plus one max energy, and then you're like, "Well, then now what the hell do I do with it?" Whereas every other deck is built for like almost skipping the first section of the game, and all your draws are gonna be in service of that extra energy you have. This one you're like, "Okay, now what?" I don't know if you felt the same, but like for me it felt pretty mid. 
 

[00:05:19] Tuccrr: Yeah, I think this is a definite card that feels like the meta is so dependent on whether this card's gonna be good or not. And we're in such a meta right now where we have a lot of big early scaling tempo cards, um, whether it is the Techno-Organic Virus cards, whether it is even like just some big one-cost cards like a Hydra Bob and stuff. 
 

Something I did really like with this card is you were playing it with some Darkhawk stuff, and I think that's actually a really solid, shout for some, just some bigger cards that maybe getting use of that extra energy is beneficial opposed to fully pouring into having to have that extra energy. 
 

Um, I think that's something with this card, like if this is your only ramp card, it's a feels bad card. Like it totally feels like it is just not a great card there. I think this card's okay. I think mid is probably pretty fair like right now at the cor- course of the meta itself just because of how many big cards we are playing right now. 
 

Whether it is like, you know, like the Rock cards or the Techno-Organic Virus cards like I was saying. But I think this card will get better over time as we progress to maybe a more expansive meta in the sense of it's not just super big early tempo. Martyr's a 1-6. Like how, how are you gonna beat the 1-6 if you don't have that on curve yourself? 
 

Um, so like that definitely leads into that, yeah, like that feels bad mid kind of aspect of this. But I don't think it's a bad card at all. I think mid, we sometimes get mid and bad, and I know you're not saying this is a bad card at all. But I know sometimes when people hear the word mid they're like, "This card's bad then." 
 

You know? "It's, it's not a great card. It's extra energy, that means it's not great." But I think it's just there's a time and place where this card is gonna feel really, really good, and there's a time and place this card's gonna feel like, "Okay, I have Luna Snow. Luna Snow's a 3-6. I know for sure I'm gonna get the extra energy." 
 

And it's kinda the same thing like with Galactus' First Steps. Galactus' First Steps aged like fine wine. You know? Your opponent knew where to contest for the Galactus' First Steps to be able to get, the extra power and stuff, and were able to play around that. And there are certain metas where Galactus is better, certain metas when Galactus isn't as good, and I think that's kind of similar to Punisher War Machine. 
 

The difference is Galactus didn't have to be on the board in order to get that extra power, whereas Punisher has to be on the board and the objective has to be met in order to get that extra energy. So like that's like kind of the difference, but I do think this card is pretty mid at the moment 
 

[00:07:33] Alex: So love that take. 
 

And I will say that when I say mid, I'm basically saying below average. Yes. Right? Like I, I will use like, like good, mid- Mm-hmm ... trash. Right. Like trash and mid, there's like, there's a gap there, right? It's not- Yeah. You're right though, but people tend to say like, "Well, is it worth it?" Well, it's probably not worth investing 6K tokens in it if it's mid, to be honest with you. 
 

But the thing that gives me some pause or concern is that like, okay, right now we have a popularity rate according to ONTAP statistics, 4%, 4.6%, and a win rate of like 51.5. That's low. Wilson Fisk and, uh, Daredevil are running right at the 56% range, and even then they're at like 22 to 24% meta share. So Punisher War Machine has definitely underperformed. 
 

They could just buff this, right? They could just buff it, right? And then you're in a situation where like, hey, it rotated out of packs and/or rotated out of the shop or whatever, and now it's buffed. Sick. And then all of a sudden someone cooks and it's... Its effect is unique enough and it's so meta-dependent that I can see this eventually being a key piece of a deck that's actually pretty good. 
 

It's we're just not there yet. And I think one of the challenges too is that I feel like this will be maybe good in like, in the future when people are playing less tempo-centric decks. Right now because of Shadowlands Daredevil, everyone's playing like six power chunks, like martyrs up front. This is the first time we've seen martyr being one of the most popular cards in Marvel Snap. 
 

Like that's such a crazy statement to say. Martyr released at a 1/4 by the way. It's a 1/6 now. It's a 1/6. And so like people are playing these massive chunks early because they're playing the Wilson Fi- Wilson Fisk itself coming down as a 3/9. If you think about all these things and then you put into the fact that Punisher War Machine has to be on the field of play, you have to win the location when it checks the objective. 
 

He's a 2/2. So let's say you're playing Punisher War Machine on turn three, they're playing Wilson Fisk. Like what do you do? Like you, then you just, you punted that turn. You ain't winning that location. You know what I mean? And so look, I feel like the meta right now is particularly bad for this card, and for that reason I think it's a skip. 
 

But it's also one of those cards where it's like unique enough that I could see it maybe being playable, but at the same time we have so many ramp options now that like I don't know if you really, really need to pick this up right now. Like I really don't think you do. I think you save your tokens and if he ever becomes relevant, then you, you cross that bridge when you get there. 
 

But right now I think it's a pass. Uh, what do you think, Tucker? 
 

[00:10:04] Tuccrr: I think it's, uh, it passed the moment. I think that, I think that's fair. I know Safety Blade's been doing well with Punisher. He's been posting, like, a couple different decks on Twitter, and he's been climbing with it. But I think you hit it right in, on, like, the noggin there, too, is, like, what I like about packs right now, just in general about packs, is, like, if you miss a card one week and they buff it, it's still in packs for two months. 
 

So you still have the opportunity to be able to get that card if it does get buffed in those seasonal series five packs. The issue I don't like necessarily with packs is that I've skipped three cards now. Now I'm going for that one out of four. Am I gonna actually be able to get the card I want? That's just the downside there. 
 

But I do agree that this card is more so a skip at the moment. Um, looking at maybe Muse, but also looking at some of these cards coming out in, like, June and July, um, as cards, if you are especially, you know, low on resources because of how limited resources are in general in this game and you wanna maximize cards you're actually gonna play and not just gonna sit in your collection, I would skip on this for now and then wait for some of these cards coming out later this summer. 
 

[00:11:03] Alex: Cool. All right. That's Punisher War Machine, but that's not the only card that came out this week. We actually have Akari as well, the 4/12 that reads, "You can only play this where an enemy is afflicted with negative power." I do have to say that with Akari specifically, I ... Okay, I was expecting this card to be better. 
 

But also, I was expecting this card to be worse. I don't know how to explain my feelings on this card. So I've been playing in, like, Evo shells just to, like, get a feel for it. Now, yeah, I can do some stuff more creative, but I wanted to play some Evo, so I'm playing some Evo. I don't care. And I'm like, "Okay, Akari's a 4/12. 
 

Yeah, I can slam it into the Cyclops lane, like turn five or whatever," and that's good, but I was already winning that lane. I feel like the challenge is, is, like, I'm already winning s- like, the lane where he, I can play Akari. And I'm like, I know I'm playing one deck, and keep in mind, it's only been out for a few days. 
 

So, like, I'm, I'm only playing one specific archetype, but I've, I've been finding that because of that lack of flexibility, I either have a couple options. I have to try to afflict more options to, uh, give me more optionality with Akari, but I have to draw into those. I have found him to be more restrictive than, than I want. 
 

I'm like, "I don't wanna play Akari here," and I have to try to rely on being like, "Okay, I can close with Akari, but my Hulk's bigger, so why would I do that? I can Akari Abomination, and Abomination gives me the optionality of playing anywhere, but Akari's overwinning a location," right? So, like, I've had this challenge of, like, this has been a little more restrictive than I expected, but also 4/12 is not bad, and we've only had a very limited time to experiment with this card, even shorter than War Machine, 'cause this obviously came out with the limited time game mode, and I think there's been a lot less experimentation with this card as well, because I think people are still unlocking it and everything. 
 

But my take is that, like, it's both better and worse than I expected. It is a huge stat stick, but The affliction side of it and having to be played at a specific afflicted base location is restrictive, and I have felt that restriction. 
 

[00:13:04] Tuccrr: Yeah, I, I think, uh, Akari, um... So I, I have a very, like, weird, uh, weird analogy here, like, uh, with Akari. 
 

So sidebar is I did some research on some Canada stuff, uh, before I hopped on the podcast, uh, this week, and I wanted to have some of the, some of that basis, you know, coming in the conversation. And Akari kind of reminds me of burnt toast, uh, a, a little bit, like, I, I smell burnt toast, but sometimes, you know, burnt toast is good. 
 

Sometimes burnt toast is not good. And Akari kind of seems like that situation i- in the sense of, okay, well, like you said, in affliction stuff, okay, Akari, I gotta play affliction because in order to, to get Akari on the board, stuff has to be afflicted on the board. But it's like, do I wanna play a high evo version? 
 

Do I wanna play, like, a hazmat version? And I think honestly, the card I actually like with this the most is something like a Marrow, because Marrow can hit the large scope of the board, so getting Marrow destroyed or discarded, and then I have to do another just iteration of a affliction kind of destroy build or an affliction discard build. 
 

I've seen some Phantom X versions where this card works. I've seen Nightmare versions. Nightmare's on a big comeback right now. I don't know if you've seen that too, Alex. Like- Yeah ... which is wild to just to have- It's cool ... Nightmare on the board. So it's really cool. I know Butts been playing stuff like that. 
 

But with Akari, I feel like the 4/12 stat line's nothing to scoff at, 'cause like you said, it's 12 power. Like, 12 power is good more often than not, even though we are in that tempo meta where, you know, Technorganic Virus is bringing cards, past that, and they're cards that have bad abilities. 
 

But I think we haven't had too much time, like you said, with Akari to have, like, a super, super a good, you know, scope of the card, 'cause it's only been, like, what? Three or four days, five days-ish since- Yeah ... we've had the card up for Puna- War Machine things. So I'm interested when we have Lady Bullseye later this season to see if that maybe helps with Akari a little bit or if it is the Nightmare things, or if it is Marrow Phantom X things. 
 

Like, it's gonna be very just interesting to kind of see where this card truly falls. But I agree, it is in a very awkward kind of spot. Um- 
 

[00:15:08] Alex: Okay, so with Akari specifically- Yes ... I'll say, though, that, like, I didn't actually play any of the Nightmare-based stuff. I did see- Mm-hmm ... that happening. I was like, "You know what? 
 

I'm gonna try this as, like, as the card is kind of designed for," and- Yeah ... but I do kinda wanna play some Nightmare, to be honest, right? I just ran out of time. I just didn't have a chance to test that. Mm-hmm. But I will say that, like, this card, you brought up the exact point that is, like, in my notes, is Bullseye, Lady Bullseye comes la- out later this month, and you have an opportunity to perhaps put a 12-power card into that deck. 
 

So we'll have to see how that shakes out. It's also worth noting, I guess we didn't bring it up, but like something like a Zabu, if you end up in a situation where you're playing like an affliction deck, you're running Zabu with, uh, you know, Akari, uh, Malekith. Like there's, there's reasons to wanna play, uh, you know, a card like this in those types of decks. 
 

So yeah. In terms of stats, it's running a like 51% win rate at 2% popularity. Like it is very, very mid as well. It and Punisher are on the same level. Which one's better? I feel like the stat stick on Akari appeals to me, but the uniqueness of the effect of Punisher War Machine could give it some viability down the line. 
 

But in a vacuum, if I could only choose one, especially since this is series four, I think I'd take Akari, but I'd probably skip both. I mean, no, no, let me take that back. This is a card in a limited time game mode. You get this card. Like you play for this card. Right. You know, you get the card. 
 

It's far easier and far cheaper to unlock, even if you don't wanna play the game mode. The 800 gold is a far lower ask than the 6,000 tokens straight up. I think that Akari from like a budgeting perspective and value perspective is worth it compared to that of Punisher War Machine. I don't know if you like that take. 
 

You could skip both, but I think Akari's cost is a little more easy to digest. 
 

[00:16:55] Tuccrr: I think cost-effective wise, if we just wanna go that way, Akari is a better cost-effective card. I do think if I were to choose between the two, I still might go more towards Punisher just because of the restrictiveness of playing Akari is more so difficult than Punisher. 
 

Of course, Punisher being able to meet that objective might be a bit more difficult in some instances, just in the current scope of the meta. But if I'm looking at Akari and I'm looking at some of the cards you kinda maybe need in order to get Akari to be truly playable, like you also have to spend potentially 6K on Nightmare. 
 

I mean, High Evo, a lot of people have access to High Evo, so you could potentially do Akari in High Evo. That's totally, totally fair there. But I think... I don't know. I think I'm on the Punisher side. I think I rate Punisher a bit higher than Akari. But like you said, they're both mid cards, so it's kind of like option A, option B, really, really close to each other opposed to them having like a huge gap, I think, between the two. 
 

But I think budget wise, like you said, if I'm gonna spend gold, I can get Akari. Instead of spending tokens, I can get gold every single season just by playing Marvel Snap. I can, of course, get tokens the same way, but it's not necessarily a one-to-one. So I think that's a, it's a fair take. Or you quite simply can play the game mode and get Akari without having to spend anything. 
 

So like you literally can get Akari for almost free. The only thing that you're costing is your time, and you know, time of course is very important. But I think that's fair 
 

[00:18:22] Alex: Yeah. And precisely like these aren't great options here. I was just saying that if you had to pick one, given that- Yeah ... Card is significantly less expensive, I feel like it's, its value proposition is maybe higher. 
 

Yeah. But of the two, let's say someone really cooks, I bet you there's a higher chance that someone cooks with War Machine, right? Yeah. That's kind of, uh... Yeah, so I'm in absolute agreement there. What we need to talk about next, my friend, is Muse. Muse is the new card coming to Marvel Snap, and I know that you seemed particularly excited about Muse. 
 

And I've been going like back and forth. Like my star rating I gave it was 3.5, and every time I do the .5, that means like I'm just not quite sure. I can see this going either way. Muse, though. Do you know what? You wanna do the honors, dude. Would you like to read Muse? 
 

[00:19:06] Tuccrr: I got it. So Muse is a three cost, three powered, series five card with the ability ongoing plus three power for each location where one of your cards has been destroyed. 
 

[00:19:19] Alex: Perfect. I love that. That was such a good read, too. You had like... There was an energy to it. I liked that. Yeah, so obviously, like you could talk about G Man, right? Mm-hmm. Kneeling, stuff like that. That's a very obvious thing. But like I... So I like this card a lot because first of all, I think that in this case, ongoing is a superpower. 
 

A lot of the cards that like des- the destroy archetype's been getting have been really fixated on getting down on the field of play, like Weapon X- Yeah ... right, has to be down, for instance. Unironically, I think Weapon X is a huge winner with Muse. I think that- Mm ... th- those two cards can definitely go together 'cause you can do something like, you know, turn one Squirrel Girl, t- turn two Weapon X, turn three Muse, and now you're like, "What have you gonna destroy? 
 

You're not destroying anything." Well, then turn four you can literally like Deadpool into, uh, Killmonger or whatever- Mm-hmm ... right? Like there are options for you to make some magic happen. So as a result, like I think Muse alongside Weapon X might actually really ramp up the power in those archetypes because like destroy's been in this rut where we've been getting these destroy tools, but it's really just making like that base destroy deck that you know and everyone knows, just that ever so incrementally better. 
 

Mm-hmm. And every type, e- every card that we've tried to like make like a new form of destroy, like even, even you go to like, uh, like Morgan le Fay, right? Which could be argued- Yeah ... like that card just kind of is in a kind of weird spot. Yeah. And I think Weapon X represented this new take on destroy. 
 

That... I saw Weapon X as getting to like 20 power. I mean, they would just get Shadow King'd and stuff, but that's the risk you gotta take. Mm-hmm. This is resistant to Shadow King, I guess. So long story short, Muse, what's your take? I'd be interested in your star rating and just general thoughts. 
 

[00:20:59] Tuccrr: So I have Muse probably at like a four as a, like in general. Personally, I'd probably have it at a 4.5, just because I really like the concept of this card. I play a lot of like mid-range destroy with like Moira X and like a Victoria Hand version. So what if- Man of culture, I appreciate that. 
 

Yes. So getting a, an extra Muse seems really good. And I think, like you're talking about, having the... In Destroy, since people know what normally goes on in Destroy, everyone kind of is like, "Well, they're just gonna do this, they're gonna do this." Moira X adds an extra layer of what actually did they regenerate? 
 

You know, what actually was in their starting hand, which is a really just creative snap condition for you and to your opponent because they don't know necessarily what happened. And I think being able to throw down potentially two three 12s at the end of the game, and potentially two free deaths. 
 

Like, having additional deaths that are free from destroying multiple cards is something I think that's really impactful, um, with Destroy, is that hidden intel. Because, like, when you're playing against, like, a Victoria hand, you're playing against, like... Even, like, an Ares Shimen stuff, it's like, what do they generated? 
 

What do they duplicated? What are they throwing down? And I think Muse kinda can be added to that. I think additionally, like you said, having Muse on the board with a Weapon X also, you know, makes sense because they're gonna go synergize together. But also, look at some of these other cards this season that have done well. 
 

Wilson Fisk is a three nine. Muse is also, I'd say floor-wise is a three three. Ceiling-wise is a three 12, right? But Muse, you're at least destroying at le- two cards in different locations throughout the course of a game of Destroy. This is gonna be a three nine more often than not. That three 12 is, you know, that sweet spot, that, you know, the bread and butter. 
 

But I think this, as an ongoing card, you hit it right on the noggin as well, is being an ongoing card makes this card so much better. If Weapon X was an ongoing card, that card would be good. But because it's not ongoing and it has to be on the board, and you have to destroy all these cards while it's on the board, that's why it's, like, a feels bad in some instances. 
 

Also with Weapon X opposed to Muse, we still are seeing a lot of Gambit Horseman of War c- or, or Horseman of Death cards. So Weapon X more often than not is going to get hit by Gambit opposed to Muse, 'cause Muse is at that three-cost stat line, um, instead of at that two-cost stat line. So that's something kind of just to, to look at in the grand scope of things. 
 

I think this is good for that mid-range style Destroy. People are gonna try it in classic Destroy, but it's probably not necessarily something you wanna have there unless you're like, "Well, maybe I don't want one of these other, like, duplication cards," whether it's, like, a Nico or something. But, like, Nico's so core to Destroy, I wouldn't swap it out. 
 

Muse, like I'm saying this right now, guys, try not to play Muse in classic Destroy. Try different styles of Destroy to play Muse in. That's really where this card is going to benefit. Of course, classic Destroy you're like, "Well, I have Killmonger. I can play Dead Pool in a variety of different lanes." 
 

But I think this is more so one of your key combo cards for those other styles of Destroy that are better Than classic destroy because like Alex said, people know what people are playing in classic destroy, so it's pretty just predictable, you know what's gonna happen. Oh, end of the game, I lose prio, so if I can Killmonger your Deadpool or I can Shadow King your Deadpool, and then, you know, just win the game. 
 

So I think this is definitely a good step in the right direction for those other styles of destroy that are better than classic destroy, especially with the Xu Lao nerf, 'cause Xu Lao was playing some classic destroy with Maverick, which that was a really cool deck. But fundamentally, I think this is a good step in the right direction for people to try new things with destroy, new hybrids. 
 

Very excited for this card. I wonder if this card will take the place of Knull in some decks. Because, like, Knull sometimes feels like it's tricky to get out, like the cost of it, and, like, you don't necessarily wanna Moira a Knull. But if you Moira a Muse, right- Mm-hmm ... you can play two Muses turn six, and maybe even two deaths that are discounted, right? 
 

[00:24:56] Alex: Like, that's a line. That's a really cool line. I mean, so it's just playing Knull I guess. But, like, what I'm trying to say is, though- Yeah ... I think there's room for those Weapon X style decks, and, uh, Muse could potentially go there. That's exactly where I'm gonna take it. I'm hoping that I don't get Shadow King'd into oblivion nonstop, which could very well happen, because Weapon X is very face up. Yeah. It's also like if you draw it late it's cooked, right? But at the same time, like it's capable of putting up a tremendous amount of power, so I can see why... Like, if Weapon X is w- ongoing- ... you said it would be good. I think it'd be broken. Like, let's be honest. 
 

Yes. Like, that would be so stupid. Oh, yes. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. That would be so good, right? That's probably a little too much, but it needed something. I guess what I wanna throw your way, Tucker, is like- Mm-hmm ... what about Dormammu? Yeah. Like, is there a spot where Dormammu could perhaps see some love with the likes of Muse? 
 

Because you do at least get two procs of destroy here, right? Like- Mm-hmm ... at a absolute minimum, and you could probably make a third. But it's a bit of an interesting deck, and it hasn't quite found its way yet. Just interested in your take on Dormammu itself. 
 

[00:26:01] Tuccrr: Yeah, I think Dormammu is a really good game mode card. 
 

Like, I think in general, in like the old sanctum, um, using Dormammu to be able to, to get additional points of power on the board has felt pretty, pretty solid there. I really like Dormammu. Like, it's one of my personal favorite destroy cards. Um, it's been more cope as of recently, and you know, something I was also thinking about with Akari is Akari can also work potentially in Dormammu with the summoning ritual, step two, being able to afflict, and then using something like an Air Walker to destroy Air Walker to get Akari on the board is kind of another thing. 
 

But I do think with Muse, having this as an additional, you know, stat point for you to be able to kind of like play out, um, where you have Dormammu one lane, you can use another lane, and like you said, you're destroying cards- Across the board more often than not in Dormammu, and I think Thanos Dormammu is another deck I've seen people mess around with. 
 

Um, and I think Thanos is another good shout for Thanos Destroy with Muse. Which I think also can kind of work simultaneously. So I would not be surprised, which beautiful split on Thanos by the way. Thank you. Um, I would not be surprised to see people trying Dormammu. Do I think it's gonna be the tier one deck for Muse? 
 

Maybe not, but, um, it really just depends on whatever happens with, I think, the meta this week. 'Cause I think we also have, like, an OTA Thursday. Maybe they do some OTA changes with destroy cards, make some stuff like that, or they hit some of these other, you know, focal cards that are kind of running the meta at the moment, and maybe that opens the door for some cool testing for Dormammu and stuff. 
 

So I do really like the idea of Dormammu having this as another powered card, and like you said, destroying a card in one lane, you summon Dormammu in another lane. Those are two lanes, and your Muse is at least a 3/9. So I think that's, like, a really good just core stat line for it there. So I would not be surprised to see testing with Dormammu, but in general, Dormammu still feels like cope at the moment. 
 

[00:27:48] Alex: Yeah, definitely. Um, yeah, so Weapon X, I might, I might steal that idea and try Thanos too. I might. I'll do some, like, Misery Thanos, right? I kinda like it. Might try it. Maybe add some, uh, some Fire Hair in there. 
 

[00:28:01] Tuccrr: Love Fire Hair. Okay, 
 

[00:28:01] Alex: yeah. Okay, or make... I might try it. I might give it a shot. When you were talking, I'm like, you know, there is that, like, that version of Thanos that kinda had its moment, right? 
 

Yeah. The Fire Hair Misery Thanos. I wonder if Muse could appreciate that, just possibly, just maybe. 
 

[00:28:16] Tuccrr: You draw more likely- Yeah, there's no- ... more left in there, 'cause you're, you know, destroying stones to get more draws Potentially. 
 

[00:28:22] Alex: Every time I play Thanos, by the way, I know this is like, you're gonna be, you're gonna shake your head at me, but I find a way to get Devil Dinosaur in the deck. 
 

I don't know why. I feel like my hand's always full. I wanna play some Devil Dino. This is a card that needs some love, for sure. Oh, yeah. Uh, but yeah. 
 

[00:28:34] Tuccrr: Like- Get more peaked though, 'cause of Rivals, right? 'Cause Devil Dinos in Rivals now is more on the... Everyone's seeing Devil Dino. Why not try and find a way to bring him back again? 
 

[00:28:42] Alex: So I've had almost no time to play video games anymore. Mm. And I've been... So my favorite... The way I interact with Marvel Rivals the most- Mm-hmm ... is first of all, it's installed, and it, like, my... I have buddies that'll be like, "Hey, new season's out. Let's rip a couple games," so I do. I, I do, I do play. But the thing that, like, I do most in Rivals is my kids love watching the cinematics. 
 

[00:29:02] Tuccrr: Oh, yeah. 
 

[00:29:02] Alex: Yeah, 'cause they're really into Marvel and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. And, like, the cinematics are so hyped. Oh, yeah. Like, I'm not talking about, like, the character animations with all the waifus and stuff. I'm talking about, like, the actual, like, Doctor Doom cinematics- Mm-hmm ... and stuff. Like, they're so unbelievably well done. 
 

Yeah. Like, that studio needs to be making movies and, like- Yeah ... animes and stuff, because they are so good. And, uh, as a result, yeah, lots and lots of hype. So yeah, Rivals, uh, doing Rivals things, continuing to be an absolutely phenomenal game. Yeah, I don't know. The, the whole style of that game, it j- they just knocked it out of the park. 
 

Like- Yeah. Yeah, it's good to see Devil Dinosaur getting some love there, and actually, Devil Dinosaur has a show on Disney, too, on Disney+. Mm-hmm. Devil and Moon Girl- It's good ... and Devil Dinosaur. It is actually good. Yeah, it's, it's cute. Yeah, it's cute. And my, uh... Actually, for my daughter, I bought her, like, a... 
 

Uh, I don't remember what they're called, an anthology of, like, a whole bunch of comics- Ooh ... for Devil Dinosaur and Moon Girl, so she's been reading that, and, uh, it has a whole bunch of different characters. Now my sons, like, will, like, cuddle with her, and she'll read to them. It's like, it's such a nice thing to see. 
 

That's amazing. Like, it, like, it's just, like, a tear coming to my eye. I'm like- Yeah ... "You, you read the Devil Dinosaur book together." It's so beautiful. But we're kind of, we're kind of off the beaten path here a little bit. But we're done with Muse. Yep. We gotta talk about the cards that we would like to see the nerfs- Mm-hmm 
 

reverted, even if they're OP. Give 'em a shot. The meta has changed a lot lately, and you know what I'm gonna do, Tucker? I'm gonna tell you right now. I'm gonna start us off with the card that I would like to see reverted. Okay. And I, I've been wanting to play this card for a while. And I think it might be, as you say, cope. 
 

But what kind of world would you like to see? If we saw original three-five Loki back, on reveal, replace your hand with cards from your opponent's deck. They have negative one cost. Now, obviously this is insane. Yes. But at the time Loki was released, and then, like, at the end of the month, we got Mobius and Mobius. 
 

Okay? So there was that situation. Is this completely soul-shatteringly broken? 
 

[00:30:59] Tuccrr: I think it probably still is, but I'm also curious Is this Loki the one that worked with Collector Loki, or is this, like, straight out of the box like it worked with Collector and everything too? Or is this a couple- So this would've 
 

[00:31:12] Alex: been straight out of the box with Collector. 
 

Okay. But you could change Collector to not have that happen. I'm less concerned with Collector- Right ... and more concerned with, like, I, I just want a Loki where I get to play their cards. Mm-hmm. That's what I wanna do. Yeah. And if that can happen, then that's cool. The Collector interaction was kind of weird, like- Yeah 
 

literally getting Collector up to, like, 12 power right away stuff. Like, it was kind of stupid, but if we can avoid that stupidity and still have 3/5 Loki that does this thing, I think it's kind of cool. I don't know. What do you think? 
 

[00:31:43] Tuccrr: I think it would be cool, and I think also, like, talking about Collector, we have two-cost cards now that scale even higher than that. 
 

Like- Yeah ... like, in general, like, we... Like, you look at Shadowlands Daredevil, if you get the right tempo, like, that card already does crazier things than the old Collector. So I was just curious which iteration of Loki. I think as fun as it is for the user playing Loki, I think it's the feels bad for your opponent, um, kind of situation. 
 

But also I'm, like, I'm curious with Loki, right? These are created cards in your hand, so they would potentially work with Victoria Hand, or they would work with Victoria Hand, so it would be a different kind of meta. There would be Victoria Hand Loki would be a cool style deck to, you know, mess around and see what happens. 
 

It would be cracked. That would be absolutely disgusting. Like, this card would be busted. But also like Loki- Yeah, turn one Quinjet- Yeah ... turn two 
 

[00:32:25] Alex: Victoria Hand- ... turn three f- like, Loki or even just Frigga- Yeah ... and then Loki, and then, I don't know, Crystal. Yeah. Crystal. 
 

[00:32:32] Tuccrr: No, not Crystal. Yeah. What? 
 

[00:32:34] Alex: Crystal? 
 

Well, you wanna draw more of the cards. No, I'm just joking. No, not Crystal. I, I- Ooh ... I've been trying to throw Crystal into the podcast for the like- Okay ... last four weeks, so. 
 

[00:32:43] Tuccrr: I think it would be busted. I'd be interested to see if there's a way they could tune it. Maybe it's not the entire hand. I wonder if it's like, change, like, the three leftmost cards in your hands from cards in your opponent's deck. 
 

Like, that, that would be something maybe interesting since we have more targeted cards in that sense, so we could target leftmost or rightmost. Maybe that for Loki 'cause Loki, you know, at the one cost is just, okay, I swapped with my opponent's deck. Now I'm just hoping I have the... you know, I draw the right cards. 
 

So, like, the intel, of course, aspect of it is kind of crazy on both ends, but I do totally agree with you. I would like to see a new version of Loki, a much tamer version of Loki, I will say. But this card is so cool, and I think, like, what this was originally was such a very interesting idea that kind of, like, flip, snap on its head. 
 

And the mirrors, of course, were really, really weird when this first came out, but I agree. I want this card to have a bit more play. 
 

[00:33:36] Alex: Okay. So what's your, uh... We got a couple picks each, so give me one of yours. Okay. 
 

[00:33:40] Tuccrr: So mine is also a bit crazy, too. I would like to see 2/2 ongoing Zabu returning to the ongoing -1, not the original -2 for four-cost cards, like when he was a 3/2, but a 2/2 -1 ongoing f- cost for four-cost cards. 
 

[00:33:59] Alex: I was gonna say, the OG Zabu was so absolutely insane. Yeah. But this is, this is still kind of insane. All right. Yeah. So sell me on this, but I, I think it's maybe possible 
 

[00:34:09] Tuccrr: Yeah. I, I think it's feasible, I think, at the moment when we're looking at the scope of, like, cards in the game right now. Of course, we look at two maybe four-cost cards that we're not really wanting to see discounted, like a Negasonic, like a Juggernaut. 
 

Shang Chi does not obliterate this whole entire lane anymore like he used to. Um, Spider-Man's not the same where he used to, you know, stop on an entire lane, and you could Spider-Man Abs Man. We don't have that going on. Darkhawk's not a four-cost card anymore. Um, Rockslide is a four-five that is a major feels bad because T-Rex is just so much better. 
 

So I think a lot of the problematic four-cost cards are in a maybe a bit more tame spot at the moment where this could seem feasible. And we look at cards like an Ikari, we look at cards like, you know, the Malekith, the Anti-Venom and stuff. And I honestly, before the podcast too, I was looking at Zabu's win rate the past, like, 30 days in all sorts of levels of infinite, and he has, like, a 48% win rate. 
 

48% win rate and, like, -24.24, -.48 depending on which, you know, metrics you look at cube rate. So, like, Zabu is kind of... Of course, if you're doing pre-infinite in some of these instances, you know you're facing bots, so you get inflated stuff there. But I was doing post-infinite stats there. But Zabu's not really winning games, which of course not every card has to win games. 
 

You're enabling sort of things. So I'm curious if you were to change this back, maybe just for, My idea kind of, you know, uh, when we were talking about this too, is like what if we have an imbalanced OTA for, like, two weeks? Kind of like how we did with the Android season, l- kind of like how we've done some stuff in the past and kind of, "We have changed all of these cards back to their original." 
 

We try the Loki, we try Zabu, we try some of these other changes. I'm curious if we could actually have some of them stay, like, the Shang Chi stayed, how it didn't destroy 10 power cards in the entirety of the lane. So I'm interested to see where we're looking at the scope now, and we were talking about tempo earlier. 
 

Our ones, twos, and threes are honestly a bit more powerful than our fours at the moment. Our fives are still really good, the five-cost cards. Six-cost are kind of still up in the air. But it's the one-cost, two-cost, three-cost I think are kinda that are in the stronger suit. Four-cost are always a feels bad. 
 

Five-cost feel better. What if we have four-cost maybe feel better now with ongoing Zabu comeback? 
 

[00:36:20] Alex: Okay, second there, you can steal this idea, all right? Watch this. New limited time game mode called the Marvel Snap Time Machine. Yeah. Where you go into it, and they only have pre-made decks- Mm-hmm ... and they're, like, the most broken versions of those pre-made decks from the past, right? 
 

Um, that would be fantastic. I would love that. Steal that idea please. Sounds actually kinda cool. Don't put that on ranked, though- ... 'cause then that, that could, like, spin out of control. But if you have like, like, a time machine game mode- Yeah ... which honestly would be cool, you have OG Zabu, stuff like that. 
 

Yeah. And something I'll add to that, though, is that it's not just Zabu. The reason why what you're saying makes sense as well- Mm-hmm ... is 'cause if you think about it- The four costs at the time, you had four six, I think, Enchantress. You had, uh- Yep ... Shunshi, right? So your turn six could literally be, like, just tech cards. 
 

Yep. Which I think was a major power play for, um, for Zabu as well. So those tech cards have been, uh, heavily hit. Shunshi obviously does not just clear the entire state of that location. Yeah ... so yeah, I can definitely see that, uh, coming into being. So yeah, I like that call-out there. The other one that I wanna mention here, it's not Loki. 
 

I'm gonna say I think we can bring back Ms. Marvel because Ms. Marvel, okay, she was a 4/5 that read ongoing. Adjacent locations where your cards have unique costs have plus five power. Now, I don't even know. I d- it's been so long. What does she actually say now? 'Cause, like, they adjusted the text ever so slightly. 
 

I know it's different, obviously. Ongoing, first of all, 4/5. She got buffed back to 4/5. Ongoing, your adjacent locations with two or more cards with no repeated costs have plus five power. So not just unique costs. Yeah. It has to be two or more cards because it doesn't... You can't just proctor with a Doctor Doom. 
 

You can't just play an Orka into the other lane or whatever, right? But I wonder, can we bring back OG Ms. Marvel? Because, like, whatever she is now doesn't work, especially since they nuked C5, so. 
 

[00:38:10] Tuccrr: Yes, I think you can just bring back old Ms. Marvel, um, especially 'cause Professor X is one of the cards that was problematic with this 'cause you only had to have one card in a lane. 
 

But now since you can move cards into Professor X's lanes, you can play skills into Professor X's lanes, I think 100% just stamp Ms. Marvel is good. You can play the Ms. Marvel change. I would be totally down for that. Maybe it can't be plus five power to adjacent locations. Maybe it's gotta be plus four, but you're not n- limited to, or y- having to have two or more cards. 
 

Maybe that would be, like, sufficient there, but I think you can totally change Ms. Marvel. Like, at that, I'm already on board. I don't think this would be too OP. I think you could just do it. 
 

[00:38:49] Alex: What's interesting is we're actually starting to see some Professor X come back- Mm-hmm ... too, with, like, the move lockdown t- uh, type stuff- Yep 
 

which is kinda cool. So yeah, can definitely see that happening. All right, Ms. Marvel is my pick. Mm-hmm. What do you got? 
 

[00:38:59] Tuccrr: So I'm wondering, can we get two cost Elsa back? Ooh. Two cost Elsa Bloodstone, where you would fill a location, and the last card you play in that location gets plus three power. She's a 3/5 currently, where it is plus two. 
 

I wonder if it can't be the two cost plus three, a two cost plus two I think would be better than just the 3/5 we're at currently. 
 

[00:39:23] Alex: Elsa was one of those cards that when it came out 'Cause you had, you had Kitty Pryde at that point. 
 

[00:39:29] Tuccrr: Yep. 
 

[00:39:29] Alex: You had Elsa, you had Angela, which was doing plus two. 
 

So there was, like, a lot happening. And was that the era of the OG Hit-Monkey too? Was the, was Hit-Monkey being played in those decks? I don't quite remember. 
 

[00:39:39] Tuccrr: I, Hit-Monkey m- I think maybe was played, but the core deck that people were playing with this Elsa was Shuri/Kitty. And that Taskmaster- Yeah 
 

also was a five cost at the time. 
 

[00:39:49] Alex: Yes, that's right. It was the Taskmaster with the Shuri- Mm ... and the Kitty Pryde. Oh my gosh, those days, man. Those were the days. Bring me back to those days. Maybe don't- Yeah ... actually, I'm not sure. But long story short, yeah. Okay, so Elsa as a three-five is pretty- Mm-hmm 
 

pretty rough. And she did get buffed to a three-five as well. Like, she had a lower stat line, I think. Yeah. Maybe it was a three-four. Not that it made much of a difference. But as always in Marvel Snap- Mm ... plus three power has been the thing that's been problematic, right? Yeah. Silver Surfer plus three, Xu Lao plus three. 
 

Yeah. Elsa plus three. I think you could probably, if you're gonna do this, revert Angela too, right? 
 

[00:40:22] Tuccrr: Re- uh, both Angela and... I mean, I guess technically Angela can't scale maybe as much. I mean, no, I think in this style deck, if you were to revert Angela and Elsa, that would be crazy. Uh- But if you 
 

[00:40:35] Alex: think about it, like, Angela, like, is it really doing that much more than, like, what Chamber or Moon Dragon were? 
 

Like... Well- And maybe it does ... 
 

[00:40:42] Tuccrr: well, it's different because Chamber and Moon Dragon, Chamber is specific to having those cards in your hand when you activate or on that b- on the board with him, whereas, like, Moon Dragon, you have to s- play that specific energy and only one card. You're limited there. Whereas Angela, okay, I'm playing my one-three Nightcrawler, I'm playing a Kitty Pryde, that, that turn, Angela goes up four points, and I think Angela scales tremendously. 
 

Yeah. I think it's more so also, like, with the changes to, you know, Invisible Woman: First Steps with, like, that interaction, like, with Prodigy and stuff, I think more of, like, Athena kind of Angela i- is kind of like, uh, the comparison there. So, like, I think you probably couldn't do both, but if you had to choose between the two, between, like, Elsa and Angela, maybe that's more so. 
 

But I'm also, like, I say all of this, right, and then we have a boost season potentially coming out in June. Like, we had the data mine cards labeled as boost, and I wonder how that interaction is going to work with some of these other cards, which is why, like, maybe we do buff an Elsa. That's what... 
 

Or maybe we do buff an Angela. So if you were to choose between the two, Alex, would you rather buff Angela, or would you rather buff Elsa? Elsa. I say Elsa, yeah. Yeah. I think Elsa. 
 

[00:41:52] Alex: Angela, I think, is, uh, it's too straightforward as a scaler. Yeah. If you're gonna buff one of them, I think buffing Elsa makes more sense. 
 

I think you gotta earn- Mm-hmm ... a little bit more. Yes, Angela did scale, right? Mm-hmm. But numbers in Marvel Snap are getting kinda big right now. Yeah. And I don't know if that's a problem, but, like, Angela being a two-one that goes plus two- Mm-hmm ... like, I don't know if that kills the game or not, considering- Right 
 

what we had already. So I don't know. I, I would, I would take a re- redone Elsa Bloodstone, 'cause it's actually a really cool card. Now, this one here is one that's near and dear to my heart. Okay. And I know it's probably not the same one that you're thinking of, but I would like to see Agent Venom be brought back. 
 

Ooh, so- Agent Venom was a two-four. It's a two-five now, that go, that changes the cards in your deck to, uh, to plus f- uh, plus three. I... The old one was plus four. Set the power of all the cards in your deck to four. Do this, and then you take Spider-Man Noir, make it a four again, or I mean, it doesn't really matter, could just stay the way it is. 
 

But what I'm trying to say is, is I can see a potential Agent Venom deck making a comeback here. Now, is it crazy with Thena, and can you... Like, it could be crazy, but the game has gone so far past this, and what breaks my heart, and the reason why this even came to mind, is because of Invisible Woman Task Force First Steps, and the end of turn stuff, a card like Havok got punted. 
 

Mm-hmm. Havok needs to be reverted. Sunspot needs to be reverted. You nerfed those decks, and now you have all this, like, collateral damage that has happened- Mm ... over the last several months, where these cards that, like, really are non-problematic, well, Havok had its moment, but, like, Havok and Agent Venom was beautiful. 
 

It was, like, the reason why you'd play Havok. And now you take that card out, put it behind the shed, and give it a little punt, and now Agent Venom just makes no sense. Like, why would you- Yeah ... play Agent Venom when you can play anything else? I think you can consider reverting this. 
 

[00:43:47] Tuccrr: I love the idea of reverting Agent Venom, and I think for the decks that you've talked about, I really think that's great. 
 

And I think, I remember playing this at a two-four, setting the power to four. You know, Iron Man gets that. You know, having Mystique get that. The, the issue with this at a two-four is that Cerebro four is actually in a pretty solid spot right now, and Cerebro four would go even more over the top, I think, with this change. 
 

Even though I do love it for the other decks that could totally benefit off Agent Venom, and I think this card is a major feels bad right now. It's not in, in a great spot. But there's also the world, right, where it's like, well, okay, Cerebro four exists, and Cerebro four, you know, gets this benefit. 
 

That's one deck. Yeah. There's other decks that can totally do better than that. And I, I liked playing this with, like, like you're talking about, too, like some of the small ball, kinda like spice rack kind of stuff, hitting Athena, hitting a Kitty Pryde, hitting a Havok, hitting a Sage, Iron Man, Esme, right? 
 

Esme is huge cope, but, like, having a bunch of different cards at that way, you know, Pixie, Pixie, Agent Venom. There's, there's a lot of cool things you can do with that shell, and have, like, a variety of different outs, um, which I do like. So I don't hate the change. I am just scared potentially of what would happen with current Cerebro with the set everything to four. 
 

[00:45:04] Alex: That's very fair. But one man can hope, right? Yes. One man can hope. All right, close us off. 
 

[00:45:10] Tuccrr: Okay. So something, a card that I've- Thoroughly enjoyed for a while, not of course in its peak was Surtr. So I'm curious if Surtr could go back to that, even if it's not three-five plus three, like a three-four plus three instead of plus two. 
 

Skaar of course is a seven cost now. We're in a different, you know, course of the meta where, you know, Star-Brand exists and, and all this stuff. I don't know if you can totally do the Surtr change because it is just a super boring, big powered stat line kind of deck. But I'm curious if you could do that, or maybe you change this to a very weird two-cost-type card where it can scale, so then it doesn't throw off your curve as much. 
 

But like having to decide between this and a bunch of other different options here is kind of the thought process, and I was gonna be like, "Yeah, what if we make Skaar a six cost again?" But I don't think we can. We cannot make Skaar a six cost again. That kind of thing here with Surtr, though. 
 

[00:46:06] Alex: I'm trying to remember the trail of nerfs that it got. 
 

I'm actually not sure what its original line was. Do you remember what the original text was? It was a three-five plus three power originally. Yeah. And then it got changed to a three-four plus three, and then it got changed to a three-four plus three, caps out at like 10 or 11. Yeah. Like, it got capped out because of just how frequent it was. 
 

[00:46:28] Tuccrr: The issue with this Surtr change, though, that I'm thinking about is Shang-Chi was literally master of the Ten Rings Shang-Chi, master of the 10-powered or more cards Shang-Chi. So you were able to have that as a counterpiece to this style of deck, which you don't have that anymore. So I think there's a couple different things that also would need to be adjusted in order for this to go back to that. 
 

Like, I think Shang-Chi also... This is a sidebar. Shang-Chi not targeting the highest powered c- like, highest powered card to destroy that center more power is something that kind of just is still funky, I think, to me. I think it probably should target it that way. Just like how, like, the Fin Fang Foom also changed, you know, of course is a 50/50 opposed to targeted. 
 

So, like, I'm wondering if they change that in the future. But I'm, you know, I'm saying this change to Surtr, but it's m- definitely not a change that I don't think should happen. 
 

[00:47:17] Alex: Yeah, and I think they made some adjustments around, like, some of the pieces, much like Loki Collector were interacting. Mm-hmm. 
 

Yeah. So they nerfed Collector not reading the cards from Loki. Mm-hmm. I'm trying to remember. Skaar was one of them that got changed. There was a few different changes around, like- Arrow was a five-10. 
 

[00:47:31] Tuccrr: Now she's a five-nine. Which... Sorry? Arrow was originally a five-10, and was- That's a two ... there was a Scream Surtr deck that people were playing. 
 

[00:47:38] Alex: Yeah. And honestly, like, of all of them- Mm-hmm ... maybe this is one of the ones that's more achievable. But you're right. Yeah. The release valve of Shang-Chi had been, like, completely taken out. But, like, it's kinda sad if you think about it, 'cause you have all these archetypes- ... that don't see play, that almost can't really see play, that I think would freshen up the game quite a bit if they were at least- Mm-hmm 
 

playable. Like, if they were B-tier decks Like, that's not crazy. There's someone out there that would like to play some Surtur. Heck, honestly, after this conversation- ... I actually wanna build a Loki deck. I wanna build a Surtur deck. Like, I wanna, like, I wanna try Agent Venom again. Mm-hmm. That's probably gonna be rough. 
 

But, like, I almost wanna try playing these and see, like, okay, well what's the problem? Mm-hmm. Because I don't think, I don't think they were playable three weeks ago because you had too much verticality and power with, uh, Sholao, with Star-Lord, and everything. Like, the numbers- Mm-hmm ... were too big. I feel like the nerfs that they made in that OTA, that big one a couple weeks back- it really did bring down the ceiling. And so decks with good floors I think can compete better now. Yeah. And I wonder if now's the time where we could try to experiment with some of these. Mm-hmm. So I don't... This was a really fun discussion. Like, I, I like this a lot- Yeah ... because it, it almost makes me, like, excited to try some new stuff. 
 

Just like we have some questions about some new stuff in the mail bag, new ideas around Major Victory. You might know this individual person. Not My Dance commented on the episode that they were on with a mail bag question which read, mail bag on the episode that I guested on, "They should change Major Victory to be a high evolutionary style card for the Guardian's crew- Hmm 
 

giving them their team clash abilities or something similar. Then I'd actually care about them, as I don't know if giving negative one cost to the cards he generates makes them that much more meaningful." Tucker, what are your thoughts on Not My Dance's i- idea of a Major Victory high evo style change? I think that would be awesome, and I think looking at, like, the team clash abilities that they had and stuff too were really good. 
 

[00:49:39] Tuccrr: Drax gets a little bit scary 'cause Drax is a double card if he is unlocked through Major Victory. But Major Victory is just a major feels bad, like a major feels bad, um, kind of card, um, at the moment. So I don't, I don't mind that. Even it going to a three-five, it's like- Okay. You know, that's a change I think would be cool. 
 

Another high Evo style card. Like, high Evo, when it first released, was like, yo, this is really sick. These cards that had no abilities have these new unlocked potentials, and it was broken to start. But I think the Team Clash abilities for the Guardians are not broken Team Clash abilities. So I think that would be fair, it would be balanced. 
 

And to note as well, Major Victory is a series four card that was a game mode card that most players should potentially, if they played the game mode or spent the gold, have access to. So this, as a retroactive change, would be great for the grand scope of the meta because more players would have access to this card opposed to it being series five. 
 

So I think that, like, when we were talking about the A-card, stuff earlier as well. The ac- accessibility of this would make a really solid change, and I would be down for it. 
 

[00:50:42] Alex: One thing that I was thinking about with this is that- Mm-hmm ... if you're gonna make that change, I would rather you give Major Victory, like, Star-Lord's ability and make Star-Lord- Hmm 
 

the high Evo card. Like, it's always- Oh ... bothered me that, like, Captain America and Patriot feels like they're, they should be fl- uh, flipped. Like, the abilities- Mm ... don't make sense to me. I feel like Captain America inspires the average person. Okay. And so it should buff cards with no abilities, right? 
 

Mm-hmm. Like, you watch Captain America, you're like, "Hell yeah," right? Like- Yeah ... "Cap, I'll go to war for you," type thing. Mm-hmm. And then, like, Patriot can do the ongoing plus. Who cares, right? But what I mean is that, like, Star-Lord is, like, the captain of the crew. Yeah. He should be the high Evo card, and then make Major Victory the one that onr- that's a two cost that on reveals for the plus five if you guess the right thing or whatever the hell Star-Lord does. 
 

That'd be cool. I can't remember. Yeah. Yeah. No, I like that. How do I not remember what's... Like, how is it possible that I'm here talking about Star-Lord and I can't... Does he do plus five now? No. It's plus four. Plus four, right? Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say, it's not plus five, it's plus four. I'm like, "Wonder what's wrong with me?" 
 

But talking about what's wrong with Alex, yesterday I went off the... Not yesterday. Last week, I went off the deep end- ... with Nega Sonic Teenage Warhead, who I was, I mentioned- Mm ... looked a whole lot like Jack from Mass Effect. And the number of comments about Mass Effect on last week's podcast- ... was absolutely ridiculous. 
 

And I will tell you, this does look exactly like Jack from Mass Effect, with Gamma saying, "Alex, you got me wanting to play Mass Effect again." Seriously, it got me wanting to play Mass Effect again too. I just might find a way to reinstall the Mass Effect Legendary Edition, which I bought on day one and never actually installed or played. 
 

Because, you know... I don't know if you guys do that, where, like, you- Mm-hmm ... games come out and you're super hyped up, and you buy it, and then, like, you realize you don't have time, you never play it. Yep. Another game like that for me was, um, Pragmata, which came out- Mm ... which everyone was, like, raving about. 
 

And I had it in my cart on Steam, and I was like, "I'm not gonna play this. Like, I know I'm not gonna play this. Like, I'm buying it so I can turn it on maybe- ... and, like, watch, like, the intro sequence, and like- Mm-hmm ... maybe run around the intro, and then never play it again. Like, I can't... I... No, I'm not doing it. 
 

I can't do this." And so I just put it away, didn't... Took it out of my cart. I'll get it when it goes on sale probably. But yeah. So I just wanted to... Did you ever play Mass Effect, Tucker? 
 

[00:52:46] Tuccrr: I never played Mass Effect, but I was also interested in buying the Legendary Collection of it just to get into it, but of course, that was like, "Well, you haven't played it at all. Jump, jump right in." But I, I've heard amazing things about the game, especially, you know, the raves about Mass Effect 3 as, like, an RPG, and it really feels immersive and, like, you know, your decisions really do have an impact on, like, a variety of different, you know, outcomes in the game, which I think is incredible. 
 

And, like, that's the style of games I do enjoy. But I have not played it personally, no. 
 

[00:53:16] Alex: Okay. That's, that's sad. So with Ma- there's two games where, like, I've, like, read all the books. All right. And I've, like, played every single game. Mass Effect's one of them. I've read all the books, played the games. 
 

Uh, The Witcher is another one where I read the entire- Yeah ... series. I loved it. And reading it gave a lot of context to the world as well. Mm. I love CD Projekt Red. They're so good. And, um, yeah, I don't know. There's nothing like a great, great RPG to sit down to. And, uh, finally, talking about all this discussion with the Guardians, Cool Shirt Kid says, "To be honest, Mantis' text is so awful that she could legitimately be a zero-cost card. 
 

Maybe a 0/0 so she's not just strictly better than Wasp?" What are your thoughts, Tucker? 
 

[00:53:54] Tuccrr: Yeah, Mantis is horrible. Uh, like, an absolutely just bad card, which Rez, I'm so sorry. I know how much you, you love you love Mantis, Rez. So maybe one day we'll, we'll get a, a Mantis change. I think even at a 0/0, it's like, why am I slotting this 0/0 in my deck unless I'm playing, like, just some weird, like, werewolf Guardians deck maybe to have the 0/0 kind of thing, or you're playing this in, like, a weird Pixie deck because it's another zero-cost card. 
 

I think Mantis just needs a complete rework. Um, I think at a zero cost, I don't think 0/0, you'd probably still have to put, like, a 0/1 or something. But this card needs a complete rework 'cause this card is just bad. So I do agree with that. I just, uh, don't know even at a 0/0 if you would actually play this card. 
 

[00:54:35] Alex: I had this thought. Do you want my take on Mantis? 'Cause I've seen who was pulling this card. I don't know if this is good- But this is thematic. It reminds me of the scene where she jumps on Thanos' head, right? Mm-hmm. What if Mantis was an on reveal that played and it randomly s- uh, randomly selected a card on... 
 

Uh, I mean, that's not great either. The idea of, like, the card on the other side that your opponent has- ... has its power still, but has its like... Or, like, the cards on the other side are, like, disabled by Mantis. Hmm. Like, their ongoings are disabled. Not removed, but disabled. I, and I, I don't know how that's different than Enchantress, but how can you utilize that, like, you play Mantis, and she has, like, not a Red Guardian effect. 
 

Like, we have all these, like, text- Mm-hmm ... stripping effects. But how can Mantis be a unique take on, like- Mm ... a status effect on cards on the other side? Like, how can she manipulate those cards on the other side while having her own lane? I guess is, like, what I'm trying to think of, and I know that's, like, a really odd specific one, 'cause we do have Red Guardian. 
 

We have, like- Mm ... uh, Deafening Chord, Enchantress. We have options like that. But I'm wondering if someone out there in the comments or a game designer could be like, "That's actually a decent idea." How do you actually make that type of lane for Mantis? 'Cause I think it's thematic. 
 

[00:55:46] Tuccrr: Yeah, I wonder if... You know how, like, they retroactively changed Ghost? 
 

What if, like, objective cards, you know, get good and Mantis um, becomes, like, an on reveal, like, disable objective card k- kind of thing? Like, the way we had with Ghost turning off end of turn cards, maybe Mantis turns off an objective card that costs a certain amount or less. Um, I don't know if she can be a one-cost there. 
 

She may have to be, like, a, a two or a three-cost there. But maybe that's what you could do. 
 

[00:56:11] Alex: The only challenge with that kind of stuff is, like- Okay ... okay, so, like, Enchantress you'll play because- Right ... you can disable your own ongoings, right? Uh, Mobius M Mobius you'll play because Technorganic Vir- Virus is a- Mm-hmm 
 

one card. Like, you have these reasons to play these, like, tech cards. Yeah. Shang Chi's like an exception to that, I guess. But- When... Did you see, did you actually see Ghost when, uh, like, End of Turn was going insane? 
 

[00:56:34] Tuccrr: I've, I seen ... The only times I've seen Ghost, and it's been super funny, is from, like, X-Mansion, and the only times I've seen it is when my opponent actually has played an End of Turn card onto that X-Mansion lane, and Ghost actually randomly turned off, and they left immediately. 
 

But no, I have not seen Ghost at all, because it also does turn off your End of Turn cards, 'cause it's the entire lane for a three cost, which is just weird. And then you have Super-Adaptoid here on screen which is another funky card, which he has actually won me a game, uh, recently. 
 

Super-Adaptoid, uh- One game. One game. I got it from, uh, Camp Lehigh, and I stole an Askani Son, and that, that won me the game. But that's, you know, one of those instances like you're talking about, which is why you probably brought it up on screen here, is, like, super niche. Super, super niche- Yeah ... kind of situations. 
 

[00:57:19] Alex: And, like, there... We have a bunch of these too, right? Yeah. Like, we have, like, the Cobras too, who I don't think I've ever even actually played Cobra. I think the only time I've even played Cobra was when it got, like, generated from, like, X-Mansion. Mm-hmm. And then the, uh, the amazing thing about that was I had initiative, and I just immediately pumped the card on the other side- Yep 
 

'cause it was an X-Mansion card. That was pretty cool, I guess. But yeah, like, these oddly specific cards, often they're too, they're too niche to even- Yeah ... like, be worth the 12 card spot. And, like, you could almost make an argument for, like, the Super-Adaptoids of the world. Mm-hmm. The, the Cobras and the... If you had, like, a conquest sideboard, right? 
 

Right. Then all of a sudden, that makes more sense, right? Mm-hmm. But without a sideboard, they're just so just dead in your hand. Yeah. And in your deck, you're like, "Man, I'm just gonna do my thing and win games, I guess." But Tucker, thank you so much for joining us on the, this week's Snapchat. Down below, we're gonna link the Marvel Yap podcast, your personal YouTube channel as well. 
 

And, uh, yeah, it was just great having you on. I loved your takes. I hope you had fun. 
 

[00:58:19] Tuccrr: Yeah, no, this was an absolute blast. Uh, you know, like, I'd, I'd been wanting to be on this for a while, so, thank you for, for having me on. Shout-out to Dance for, you know, pushing, pushing to have me on and everything too, you know. 
 

We, we, we love Dance, um, and all, all he does. And, uh, yeah, this was an absolutely, um, amazing time. I enjoyed, you know, talking with you. I think, uh, the, the takes we had about, you know, nerfing/rebuffing cards was really, really fun to, you know- Yeah ... hear the insight on it and everything. That definitely inspired me to play some of these older decks, um, as well. 
 

But yeah, thank you for, for having me on the pod. 
 

[00:58:46] Alex: Of course, everyone, and down below, we will have all the links. Of course, the subscribe button down there is going to subscribe to Tucker as well. Make sure you use it. Hit the like button if, while you're there already. And guys, appreciate each one of you, and we'll see you on that next one.